Xmas Special 2007

topic posted Fri, December 28, 2007 - 10:42 AM by  gordon
hi, i'm GORdon. i didn't even remember that there would be an xmas special this year, until a friend surprised me with the download yesterday.

hi, i'm Russell T Davies. Here's my formula for writing Doctor Who:

1. a facile,simplistic playing with audience expectations. here's an ugly little alien critter -- but oh! he's not the baddie! it's the guy who runs the cruise lines! and oh! it wasn't the real titanic, but a titanic clone! running into the tardis was a red herring! cuz yeah, shit breaks into the tardis all the time -- which leads to the next point --

2. disregard established continuity regarding **how things work** the tardis is impregnable. nothing has ever penetrated it. who cares, if it makes a spectacular teaser for the next ep, but one which does not figure into the plot at all! ain't i clever??

3. oh, but do borrow superficial bits from the past. robots of death, anyone?

4. in that vein, treat douglas adams's sci-fi silliness like it's canonical. and again, we're talking about the surface bits, not the underlying philosophical viewpoint.

5. make really leaden, obvious "commentary" (using the term loosely -- again, surface!) regarding people of disenfranchised groups, usually -- surprise, again! -- gays. gays and the lower class. oh, and race -- gotta throw an inter-racial coupling in there, always. gee, maybe one day i'll actually have something substantive to say on this subject, instead of using it as just another shiny bauble. which leads to --

6. ultimately show reverence for power and prestige, such as royalty. "i'm the doctor, i'm a time LORD ..." Kylie Minogue is a character who gets to play straight, because she is beautiful. the two underclass lottery winners are played for laughs, because they are fat and not particularly attractive. wow, i just love beautiful people, and parties. and making money. which leads to the next point --

7. pander to the american market. spectacular effects, explosions -- and oh! lots of kissing! see the doctor kiss rose. see the doctor kiss martha (ooh! and i get to be inter-racial again!) see the doctor kiss kylie. see the doctor kiss donna -- over and over. aren't these all things we loved about the old Doctor Who?

yes, facile, simplistic plots (my friend guessed that the little gay i mean cyborg guy was gonna die, that one of the marrieds would bite it, and that kylie would die), big spectacle, lots of S E X, the doctor as an establishment figure who did not want to run away from his fellow Lords but misses them like fuck --

don't you just love what i've done with Doctor Who??

and if you don't, fuck off! it's a hit! and that's all that matters to a great man like me!

posted by:
gordon
Pittsburgh
  • Re: Xmas Special 2007

    Fri, December 28, 2007 - 12:01 PM
    Sigh why bother.

    We'd say if you don't like it don't watch but you will.
    I think you may be a bit too heavily invested.
    The old Dr who's weren't exactly writing from the gods. They were camp they had plot holes, some of the acting (even of the early doctors) really needed more than one take, which is usually all they got, but we loved it for it's imperfection.
    This series has improvements and failings just as with everything. Honestly I like tennant and yes some of the episodes are crap, but I still love them cause I think they carry the spirit of the Show.

    As for something breaking into the TARDIS said his shields were down. Theoretically the outside and inside aren't attached but hey shit happens. Seriously though you put so much hatred into all this ? Why do you keep watching?
  • Re: Xmas Special 2007

    Fri, December 28, 2007 - 1:31 PM
    GORdon makes some good points. I do sometimes thinks he dwells overly on the negative on RTD tenure of Doctor Who and overlooks the positive elements, but nothing he says is without basis.

    The Doctor, in the classic series, rarely ever had the need to identify himself as a Time Lord. "Hello, I am the Doctor" was generally enough.

    RTD has the tendency to recycle story elements, right down to lines of dialogue, far too often. Any individual episode might be wonderful, but we needn't be treated with a pastiche of that very same story every season.

    This is not to say I don't have fun watching the show, but I do know that were he not over extending himself by writing most episodes, his stories would be much better.

    I find that the Steve Moffat and Paul Cornell episodes to be consistantly better written with fewer of the RTD clichés.
    • Re: Xmas Special 2007

      Fri, December 28, 2007 - 9:37 PM
      I saw it myself now, and I have to say that much of GORdon's critique was perfectly spot-on. The red-herring teaser was almost as big a let-down as the deus ex machina endings that RTD has tended to favor in his season finales.

      1.) RTD, at least this time, gave us a solution that was not a deus ex machina-- it came out of the Doctor's natural problem solving abilities.

      2.) The host/angel robots was a clever pun. They were visually well designed.

      3.) Geoffrey Palmer was completely wasted in his role as the Captain whose motives made no bloody sense and who turned out to be a pointless character

      4.) Why bother with the meteorite attack and the depressed Captain when you have the killer robots at work?

      5.) Clive Swift was really good in his role as Mister Copper. Even if much of his dialogue (as GORdon says) was superficially derivative of Douglas Adams. He came across as a fully developed character.

      6.) With the exception of Astrid, most of the characters who so heroically sacrificed themselves were never fully developed, which made their sacrifice have less impact.

      7.) Are the people of London really so easily frightened that all of them would all abandon their city because aliens might come? I thought they were made of stronger stuff than that. And with all the other aliens who've invaded in the last few years, they're only afraid of Christmas aliens? London has been invaded way too many times in the first decade of the 21st century-- please go to another era/nation/planet/century more often.

      8.) The bit with the Queen was a nod to the real Queen Elizabeth II who was apparently enough of a fan of Season One that she was widely reported to have ordered it on DVD.

      9.) RTD is even becoming derivative of his own work-- "End of the World"-- which was also much better. Why is it that there was only one passenger who did not look human, if this a ship of aliens? RTD's best episodes are the ones with political satire-- it's what he does best

      10.) The villain was cool could have been fleshed (heh!) out more.

      11.) Another continuity gaffe-- if the tenth Doctor is 903 years old, doesn't that make him younger than the seventh Doctor? Or conversely that the Doctor has become incredibly reckless over the last several regenerations if we take any of the fourth Doctor's claims to be 750-something years old seriously.

      12.) I don't need to hear the Doctor telling us the meaning of Christmas--- he's experienced too much of Earth history first hand to be making all these nice family friendly statements about "peace." He also knows that Christmas did not exist as a holiday until after the Roman Empire made Christianity the state religion. If he had been there when it began it would have been sometime in the fouth century and there would have been lots of crazy bacchales.

      13.) the Sycorax from two years ago were interesting villains. Bring them back.


  • Re: Xmas Special 2007

    Fri, December 28, 2007 - 9:29 PM
    Perhaps that's why they refer to this run of shows as as seasons 1-3 (soon to be 4), instead of 27 or 28 or whatever it would have been had they continued running from whence they left off. It's a different show.

    As for pandering to Americans, I would be willing to bet that young Britons like explosions, too. It is really supposed to be for kids/teens. Always has. Many Britons I've asked about it over the years confirm same.

    The 20th century pop culture references are getting to be a bit annoying. "Passenger 57"? "42"? Okay, ha ha, very clever.

    I bet I can boil down pretty much all of your list to one bullet point: the Doctor is less dignified than in incarnations past. There was something aloof and almost regal about him. Maybe seeing his entire species, family, and friends wiped out in the Time War made him less remote, more in the moment.
    • Re: Xmas Special 2007

      Sat, December 29, 2007 - 12:53 PM
      Meh. I guess I can sort of get a sense for the fact that the Christmas Special wasn't the best thing EVAR, but I still enjoyed it. Everybody had good points though... some of this stuff DID seem recycled, and what happened to just "I'm the Doctor" said in a very authoritative manner being enough for everybody? But David Tennant is a fantastic Doctor (the charm! The quirkiness! The charm!), and, well, I haven't watched the old ones yes, so... yeah.

      Seems interesting that he's so open to the idea of Astrid becoming his next Companion so soon. After he lost Rose, he was pretty closed off to the idea of bringing Martha along for a bit in the first couple episodes of season three. Just a "one time thing" was his original plan - with Astrid, it's all, I LIKE YOU! COME WITH ME! ::shrugs::

      And what's with the new intro music? If it popped up later in season three, then... well, I haven't seen all of season three yet. Still catching up. But I miss the old music. I don't like this "rock out Doctor Who sound". I miss the brass. I love violas (unless they were just violins, but the resonance sounded like violas), but not here. It almost sounded like there was an electric guitar in the background. BOOOOOOOOOO.
      • Re: Xmas Special 2007

        Sat, December 29, 2007 - 2:27 PM
        Of course the original version of the theme for the show was a consequence of a weirdo making weird sounds from weird electronic devices.

        Electric guitar would not be so bad if it was really quirky... to this day, I am convinced that Jimi Hendrix' "Third Stone from the Sun" was inspired by the Doctor Who theme-- after all he did live in London at the time it was recorded and he was clearly a science-fiction fan.
        • Re: Xmas Special 2007

          Sun, December 30, 2007 - 3:23 AM
          The theme is the same with one extra beat/groove added.
          it rocks. get better speakers.
          cheers
          rr.
          • Re: Xmas Special 2007

            Sun, December 30, 2007 - 12:15 PM
            It has nothing to do with my speakers, and it's NOT the same "with one extra beat/groove added". Some of the brass is missing, and there's a heavier emphasis (or just plain old addition) on strings. I just don't like it is all.
      • Re: Xmas Special 2007

        Mon, December 31, 2007 - 9:10 AM
        Spoiler alert!









        For me this special represented everything that's been great and everything that's been terrible about the RTD years. Mostly terrible.
        First the good... Nicely written characters. Sympathetic. Sweet, even. Sense of irony about being Dr. Who, what with the funny monsters and the goofy plot in jokes. Tennant really becoming the role more and more every show.
        Then the bad... HIGH body count! What kind of hero loses more than half of the people he's protecting? (And no, I don't count the citizens of earth, they're jokes in this script.) Just watching the Doctor breaking promise after promise to save people's lives, really breaks my heart in a bad way. Also, the body count eventually leaves you numb to more deaths. By the end the show's prior morality, a lynchpin of the show, leaves little but numbness and math.
        Plot holes and deus-ex-machina!!!! Why would Max BOTHER to go down with the ship instead of watching it crash from afar? Security Code 1? ENOUGH with the sonic screwdriver! It can't be a magic wand. If the Doctor could pilot the ship down to earth with some enginey mumbo-jumbo, wouldn't it have been smarter to just tell the mate left on the bridge to do that?

        Sigh. Just a little extra work would solve all this stuff.

        And, again, if the Doctor promises to save someone, and then doesn't, that's a HUGE deal, not to be tossed off as they did.
        • Re: Xmas Special 2007

          Mon, December 31, 2007 - 3:47 PM
          Kelly-

          I'm in agreement on how the episode manages to present what's best and worst in RTD's scripts.

          Excellent point about the Doctor losing nearly everyone-- Peter Davison's Doctor was broken up if the body count was too high in the end. Christopher Eccleston's Doctor was ecstatic when he finally had an adventure where he managed to save the life of everyone with whom he came into contact. Tennent's Doctor often seems only broken up if his female companion is lost.

          It's okay for the hero to fail sometimes-- but the failure needs to hurt him. That said I liked Mr. Copper's remark about "if you could choose who you could live, that would make you a monster"-- that was an excellent piece of writing and Clive Swift performed the line well.
          • Re: Xmas Special 2007

            Sat, April 19, 2008 - 4:19 PM
            Is it just me, or did anyone else notice all of the similarities to Poseidon Adventure?

            None the less, I did enjoy it!
            • Re: Xmas Special 2007

              Sat, April 19, 2008 - 10:31 PM
              Yeah, it was a knockoff of that, too. Even down to the overweight Shelley Winters character(s)! It wasn't the best TV show ever made, but I confess to enjoying it also. Watching it this time on a television instead of in ten minute grainy bits on YouTube, I caught a couple more things. Most amusing of which was Kylie Minogue grabbing a box to stand on to kiss David Tennant. Too effing funny.
  • Re: Xmas Special 2007

    Sat, April 19, 2008 - 11:22 PM
    Didn't you guy see the children's in need special ? The Doctor said he left the shields down so yes some thing could smack in the TARDIS. but to just dial it as the Doctor did was a bit odd.


    Death is not a good thing for him he hated seeing the Master die.. Think his most hated enemy and he wanted to have him with for all time ..He want some one anyone that is more like him some one that see the universe like him with sense real wonder.
    the young girl Astric. I was so unhappy at the out come as well.

    I think that last line" you be a monster if you could chose who lived or died" helped the Doctor make it through but he is in hell for not being able to save them all.look at last weeks and how it effected him as well.
    Yes the show has been taken over by someone that think big Booms and Sex is the selling point of every show on TV and at lease this isn't Desperate Timelords... yes there is Kissing.. yes they got the age wrong (he should have been 957 to 960 years old) .

    I hated seeing the doctor fail the Doctor hate to lose and he even angry at not being able to save people "(NO I can do anything line) Russell T Davies want to make the Doctor more human .. that sucks he isn't human he is a timeload and yes he can fail but to write it so the doctor loses those he cares for but even in the classic eps they died

    Russell T Davies. will be gone ans other will take on the doctor and we can only hope who ever picks up the mantel of being in charge gets away from the TV norm and takes the Doctor to a better level. Yes I like the effects it much better than the 70's and 80's and if you wand bad models and rubber suits monsters and card noard set well please stop watching and go back to the classic DVD you'll be much happier.

    the new theme is a full orchestra playing nit just few people with a re-mix listen to it in HD or just download the files and listen with a good sound system. you can hear the brass and strings and it has power in it. I listen and could hear they had bumped it up this year.

    Davies formula will go away just hang in there there are only 11 eps left after tonight..lets hope tonight is as good as last weeks.

    BTW did anyone note that the cut a line from the Queen as the Ship flew over on the Sci-fi channel's airing? I wonder why the edited some of the show last night.. it seem so un-needed .

    CC
  • Re: Xmas Special 2007

    Mon, April 21, 2008 - 4:17 AM
    <treat douglas adams's sci-fi silliness like it's canonical>

    what's this in reference to?

    a lot of douglas adam's sci-fi silliness started when he was script editor for doctor who.

    <lots of S E X>

    damn, i wish I could find the versions you've been watching. lol

    <the doctor as an establishment figure who did not want to run away from his fellow Lords but misses them like fuck>

    the show's always been schizophrenic in this regard. orginally, he didn't run away but was exiled, or somehow "cut off" from his own people.
    • Re: Xmas Special 2007

      Mon, April 21, 2008 - 7:09 AM
      Douglas Adams' tenure on DW included dealing with lots of serious stories-- most of the silliness was found in Baker's ad-libs-- what Adams brought in was an additional layer of convoluted storytelling.
      • Re: Xmas Special 2007

        Mon, April 21, 2008 - 4:53 PM
        from i remember reading about Douglas Adams and what he wanted to write for Doctor Who was most Adult stories IE move a kids show to a Family show He wanted the stories to be more like normal Sci-Fi that had you wanting watch.
        The shows format was that of the old cinema serial that would cut off just as the hero was about to fall pray to the bad guy or some trap. May of the adults at the time of the Show stated were of that time when and remember the Flash Gordon and all. the doctor was a kids show and Douglas Adams wrote some very good and serious stories Tom Baker ad=libs were great and didn't hurt the story at all(the bloopers are even better)I think if Douglas was still with us he would be writing for the show even now.. Maybe some need to see if he left and unfinished scrips about?

        CC
        • Re: Xmas Special 2007

          Mon, April 21, 2008 - 7:24 PM
          Doctor Who had ceased being a "Kids' Show" long before Douglas Adams was involved. Try Philip Hinthcliffe or Robert Holmes' tenures on the program, both as writers and producers. What Adams did was shift the emphasis away from gothic horror and political allegory and more towards clever space-opera.

          There was always a concern that the Doctor had to be a role-model because kids were watching, but Doctor Who was dealing doing some pretty sophisticated political and social issues (albeit though allegory) for a "family program" and was a considerably violent show for the time period (Remember how often Leela killed people, much to the Doctor's understated disapproval?) It was very rare that there was not a heavy death toll in any story-- look how often a story would end with quite a few of the good guys dead. That's not how one makes a kid's program. This is why the kids hid behind the sofa-- because the monsters killed good people.

          The stories that are most like the classic series, you will note, have lots of carnage: Unquiet Dead & The Long Game from the first season; Impossible Planet/Satan Pit from the second season; 42 from the third season.

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